Evil DM: “I’m getting too old for this crap.”

Killer DM: “Only had one day left ’til retirement…”

My internal perception of the Evil DM matches Ve4’s pretty much. I believe that a great DM needs to be Evil (in controlled doses) and allow players to be Superstar badasses at the same time .

You can mess with the player’s reference points, just not all of them. Like our discussions on the Can of Evil.

When a character says ‘I’m getting too old for that Crap’ while the player is at the edge of his seat, a crazy gleam in his eye… That is the work of an Evil/Awesome DM combo.

Evil DMing, when taken to the extremes you describe, becomes Bad DMing. As does any other sort of DMing, however.

This is why I specified that a good Evil DM is a great DM. A bad Evil DM does what you say.

I think, if this ever gets redone, or done more completely, “Bad DM” needs to be rewritten as a modifier, rather than a class of its own. As soon as the players stop having fun, the DM moves into “Bad DM” territory. As written, it is “Bad Storyteller DM”.

“Bad Killer DM” was already touched on in the Killer definition above. (Good Killer DM is merely the one who lets all dice roll in front of the players, plays enemies more tactically than they probably should be, and doesn’t protect them from their stupidities. He may enjoy it when the players allow him to kill them, but he won’t force the situation on them.)

“Bad Evil DM” is what you describe.

What you describe Ve4 is more of a challenging DM… You love bringing some tough challenge that at first glance may seems over the top…

It’s a fine line to walk but the constant and merciless struggle is a big part in the Evil DM description he just does not cut you any slack.

He’ll give you a setting where everyone you meet could be a traitor and you know they’re out there to get you… Now that is fine for a one shot session but in the evil DM case it’ll be the theme of his campaign and each and single time the player let their guard down on anything they’ll get it. (Inspired by a real experience)

I can assure you that the novelty of the situation quickly transform itself from interesting to nightmarish.

See, I’m a borderline Evil DM. There is no question about that.

Last night I went out for a friend’s birthday. This friend and I used to game together. In fact, he was part of my first gaming group, and he was even DM for a while back when I was still learning the game.

He was there when I started DMing. He was also there when I unleashed the Wight Dragon on them (one of the most perfect exmples of Evil DMing I can think of).

But we haven’t gamed together in a while. And last night he tells me that he misses gaming with us, and misses my DMing.

And I laugh, because I know what kind of stuff I pulled on the players sometimes.

But he insists. He says that he loved the different stuff. The stuff that made the players think, and use skills that they didn’t normally use. He tells me that the Wight Dragon, at the time, had made him so very pissed off, but had been one of the best, most memorable games he has ever played.

See, a good Evil DM generally won’t leave you feeling frustrated, though they will have you going “What the Hell?” for a while. And an Evil DM doesn’t punish characters, deny them things, or try to make the characters fail. (Those are the mark of the BAd DM, not the Evil one.)

An evil DM will merely present the characters with tough situations and choices. Every one of those situations will be able to be overcome by the characters, though it might require clever thinking on the player’s part to get out with little difficulty. Sometimes “overcoming” will mean retreating, sometimes it will mean needing to make a morally questionable choice, and tensions may rise.

But frustration? With a good Evil DM (even a pure Evil DM), it should never happen.

Good points!

Given that perception I agree with Dave that any frustration is bad and everything should be done to avoid it.

The art his in managing the disappointment of your player, a.k.a. challenge, and make sure that it does not reach the frustration level.

My 2 cents